Would/Should you include Workshop Photographs in your Portfolio ???

Jurgen - Glyn,

This is an interesting question. Let me answer by asking: Why wouldn’t you? What is the purpose of a portfolio?

You want to present your best work. The images, you present should be a true reflection of what you are capable of. If that was in context of a workshop, you did it in that context. Of course, you want to avoid a case, where another participant at the same workshop took a very similar shot. This comes back to your own personal style.

For young photographers it is a way of building a credible portfolio.

On the other hand, you will take your learnt lessons from the workshop and apply them to your daily work. You probably will shoot better images over time because of your learning experience and further integration into your own style. Over time that question would become redundant. Sometimes, you shoot an image that is just great and stands the test of time. If it would be taken at a workshop or as part of a professional assignment wouldn’t make any difference to me. The result counts.

Richard Hales - There is no real reason why you can’t use such an image, as you took it and therefor its your copyright etc.
There is a moral/ethical issue involved though; how much did you contribute to the pose, lighting, location etc.
If you can recreate the style of image then this isn’t necessarily an issue, especially if you have similar images in your portfolio taken outside of the workshop situation but if you can’t recreate the image then, ethically, you shouldn’t use it a representation of your abilities

Noel Hannan - I think the issue here is about being able to reproduce the image yourself at a later date. If, for example, I was on an Annie Liebowitz shoot, camera in hand, amongst the extensive lighting setup, the half a dozen assistants, the make-up artists and the gofers, and I take a shot, almost identical to the shot Ms. Liebowitz has taken (apologies to Ms. Liebowitz…) then, no I wouldn’t include it in my portfolio. I might blog about it and certainly show it as a good photograph. But the problem would be that I could not replicate it. I simply do not have her resources. If I did, that would be a different matter.

If I go on a ‘one light’ workshop, well, I have one light, I can practice the technique if its one I didn’t have before and I can replicate it.

I went on one of Glyn’s excellent ‘taster’ workshop back in December and took a great shot of a male model, Danny. I went back home and was able to replicate the technique again and again. Danny is in my portfolio. Great debate Glyn…

JJPare - Philosophically, I lean towards not including them — again from an ‘honesty’ point of view. Even if the style of shooting from the workshop matches the aesthetic that I’m going for in my own work, nearly everything about the shot was controlled by someone else. I may have tweaked the pose a bit, and the composition, but overall the shot says nothing about my ability to walk in to any room and get the kind of pictures that’ll make a client happy.
Of course, having just said that, I have to admit that if you were to sneak a peek at the current lineup in my portfolio, you will notice a couple of shots from the OneLight workshop we attended. However, you might also notice that there are only 9 shots there in total. Having recently decided to focus myself to that style of lit portraiture, I’ve had to lose pretty much everything else I’ve shot over the last 6 years. As a result, I have very little to show around while I work to build a whole new body of work, but in order to get clients to hire me I need to show *something*. And so those couple of shots were added. (And at the very least, I don’t think they stick out at all when compared to the other images there—if anything, they’re probably the weaker ones)

But they will also be the first images to be replaced as new work comes in and then, at best, they’ll show up in a blog post.

Good work on the blog, by the way. It’s become one of my regular stops.

Tim Wallace - This is a discussion that I feel has valid points on both sides, the question is very open and the answer not simple by any means. From a purely legal and objective point of view it would depend on how the image was shot and set up. A photographer attending a seminar who takes a shot on his own equipment does indeed own the copyright to that image, however if the model and the lighting was setup for him then he goes to use that shot to help him gain a commission from a client then in open terms he is breaking the trades description act as he is gaining funds through the commission based on work that he did not ‘create’ in the full sense of the meaning. I run seminars each year with some of the top UK car manufacturers and as part of the tutorial I do a live shoot with multiple lighting setups and shot on Hasselblad equipment, this is to give people a full understanding of what is possible out of camera, very much in the same vain as Glyn is doing. The images that the pupils shoot after I’ve done my demo in the morning will indeed use the cars that we have put in place and the lighting that we had previously setup, however in the strict sense of honesty the photographer can not say that it is his work and that indeed he can reproduce that level of lighting and quality in any other situation. Seminars are training environments and not portfolio days. This said of course people will get good shots and they will use them ion their portfolios and can we blame them. The interesting point is that this will only normally be a few images and if they take away the lessons learned and shoot their own stuff in addition then its an honest act of capability. If they do not then its pretty obvious as the images will stand out and be apart from their other work. My own site has around 400 images on it and they are all in the same style pretty much and varied over a number of years, this shows a prospective client that I have both experience and pedigree if that’s the right term.
The answer, well its not open, indeed its like trying to answer the question is photography art? - in short you can never give an answer that everybody agrees with. The setup, if its the main reason for the shot being a good one, is very clearly down to the person giving the seminar, the capture, in its purest form is the person clicking the shutter. Another way of looking at this is which takes more skill?
One solution in seminars is to teach the lighting breakdowns fully and teach why they work in such ways, do test shots yourself to prove your point and then move the lighting to breakdown, reset the stage and invite them to play with the lessons they have learned, this is my favored action as it then stands more chance of actually sinking in with the pupil.
Is my answer right or wrong, not sure, who can really say as neither party is on the fence for both in these cases.

Mike - I don’t think workshop organisers really give a rats ass as they want bums on seats. You go to a workshop to gain knowledge, tips, network, get some alternative location/style shots if that is what’s included. On some workshops I have seen advertised, they have stated that they don’t want images to be used commercially or in print competitions.

Lets be honest, if the images can not be used on-line it still will not stop said photographer from showing off the images whether it be on the computer, in a private gallery or in print format.

Scot Baston - Just to add another thought to the pot..

Today, I was on day 2 of a 2 day fashion photography course and we were given a brief for a shoot.. We then had to devise exactly how and what we would shoot. The location and model were chosen by the course leader, while everything else was up to each student. Each student came up with totally different shoots using different aspects of the location and different style.

in other words, what I shot today was my work within the bounds of the brief. Quite similar to a brief from a client I suppose. At what point do we as photographers say this is not my work? I didn’t design the set, didn’t choose the model but I did have sole creative input into how I shot the image.

In a slightly different context, I have done a few landscape courses, and while I received feedback on what I was shooting I still consider those images to be my own. I suppose I have strong ideas about what I want from an image and if I implement it, even while on a course I consider it mine to use as I wish. I didn’t choose the mountain range, but I did choose how I would shoot it.

For me a course is more like a phototour or safari.. The course leader is more like an opinionated local guide.

John Shim - Glyn -
Great question and you can see the discussion you’ve generated. I think I agree with what people say. I say use it in your port but explain that it was shot at a workshop. Unless you setup the lighting, posed the model(s), and etc… there’s no reason why you should take credit. Even in a lot of print/photo competitions, rule explicitly state that you are not allowed to use photos taken at a workshop unless you’re the one that is running the workshop and is the person responsible for setting everything up.

Even if you’re new or just starting out (like I am)… you have friends you can ask to model for you based on the lighting setups you learned at a workshop (i.e. OneLight).

Hope you’re doing well Glyn!

Peter - Where are the amazing pictures of the police that you have on your business cards?

Have you written to Annie Leibovitz yet?

CallumW - Good topic this one.
I think a good analogy would be if I put birthday candles on an M&S cake then I can’t claim to have baked it myself

I think it’s fair to show in a blog as it shows that you’re pushing to learn and expand your knowledge.

A disconcerting thing I heard from a colleague recently was that some people are buying royalty free images from stock sites and putting them in their portfolio as their own work.

The downside of both scenarios is that if someone asks for a variation on the style of ‘your’ image X and you can’t reproduce it for whatever reason, then they’re left discredited.

CW